| Name |
Nachricht |
Marcel-HV
Siedler
6 Beiträge
|
|
Meister SAG7 Question..., 10 Feb. 2018 14:21
|
|
Hello all,
A friend of mine is working on a project to replicate a subway-train cabin, type SG2, which were in use between (about) 1980-2015 in Rotterdam...
Next step in the project is trying to get the station-announcement to work, provided by a Meister SAG7 and an Ebis2.
Looking at the (train) drawings it looks like the +24V is on pin 26b and the -24V on pin 12d, but probably its not that simple and im missing something because nothings comming alive...
Can anybody please tell me how to hook things up in order to make it work, with or without the extra PCB on the pictures?
(The extra PCB on the pics is to make it possible for the dispatcher to make announcements in the train over the radio)
Pics: Meister SAG7
Geändert von Marcel-HV am 10.Feb.2018 16:50
|
|
| |
Beitragsbewertung:
|
Fien1989
Gelehrter
230 Beiträge
|
RE: Meister SAG7 Question..., 13 Feb. 2018 14:07
|
I have one working announcement unit from the bus (RET 400, around ‘97), but without the rack and control unit:
https://youtu.be/uJ4y_ggYQ1M
(It‘s Dutch)
I‘ve connected the power, IBIS-data and a loudspeaker to the announcement unit directly. The 24v power and IBIS to the small black connector on the back (1-24v, 2-WBED, 3-WBEM, 4-WBSD, 5-WBSM, 6-GND). Loudspeaker on big connector 26z (+) and 24z (-). Line-out on 20z (+) and 20b (-). Between 10z and 14z there‘s a resistor to set the volume (if not set the volume is max.).
My unit is nearly the same, but has a card in the front for audio storage. Your unit stores the audio in internal EPROM‘s according to the documentation I have about the system used in the subway-train. But I suppose functioning is the same.
On your system the IBIS-data wires are going to the EBIS2 unit instead of a PC. And I suppose you need to short a "cabin switch" wire on the EBIS2 if you don‘t use the orignal cabling because otherwise it only show "EBIS2 PASSIV-MODE".
The 25W II-GLS module is a amplifier. I also have one but not connected because I don‘t have the rack. The announcement unit has a build-in amplifier for one loudspeaker and also a line-out.
|
|
| |
Beitragsbewertung:
|
Marcel-HV
Siedler
6 Beiträge
|
RE: Meister SAG7 Question..., 14 Feb. 2018 20:41
|
Leuk om te zien, heb jaren in die krengen rondgekacheld ;-)
Using the unit without the rack definitely wil save a lot of space...
In the meantime i‘ve had contact with- and received some information and documentation from an other forum-member about the device(s) (thank you! very much btw!) and tried your method as well, but no luck yet...
Connected to the black connector and a speaker to 26z/24z results in EBIS2 PASSIV and a continious static noise from the speaker...
I‘ve connected the pins you mentioned to the EBIS2 (according to the documentation) like this;
WBSD - 8
WBED - 9
WBSM - 27
WBEM - 28
Pins 15 & 34 are connected as well, probably the cabin-switch short...
Any ideas what else to try or how to test the SAG7 connected to a PC?
|
|
| |
Beitragsbewertung:
|
Fien1989
Gelehrter
230 Beiträge
|
RE: Meister SAG7 Question..., 14 Feb. 2018 21:22
|
The noise at the speaker-out is normal if it‘s not too loud. Because no resistors are set the volume is at max. and max. noise ;-)
You can connect it to a PC with a RS232-IBIS converter and use IBIS Utility to send hPxxxx telegrams to it. If it‘s configured using normal telegrams it should play stops.
The "EBIS2 PASSIV" screen has something to do with the cabin switch. I don‘t know which pin it is because in the subway-train it‘s wired via a extra PCB ("AP48" in the schematics).
But if you open the EBIS2 unit inside are some jumpers. You can adjust these to skip the whole "PASSIV"-mode so it will just start (but be sure don‘t put it back in a subway with two cabins again after that...)  I maybe can tell you which one to adjust if you take a picture of the inside of the EBIS2 with the jumpers visible
Geändert von Fien1989 am 14.Feb.2018 21:27
|
|
| |
Beitragsbewertung:
|
Marcel-HV
Siedler
6 Beiträge
|
RE: Meister SAG7 Question..., 15 Feb. 2018 15:55
|
You mean the Dip-switches?
Putting it back in one of the trains is gonna be hard, they‘re probably back as razorblades or something by now...
|
|
| |
Beitragsbewertung:
|
Fien1989
Gelehrter
230 Beiträge
|
RE: Meister SAG7 Question..., 15 Feb. 2018 18:46
|
:-o It‘s from the revised Type T... so the unit will have the new stops in it :-o
No, not the DIP-switches. But one of the red jumpers need to be moved. On the photo below I‘ve marked it. You should take out the jumper at the green arrow and move it one place to the left were the pink arrow is.
After this the unit should boot up.
Keep the short-wire in the DB-37 connector between pin 15 and 34 in place, otherwise it will go back to "PASSIV MODE". If you don‘t want the need of this short-wire, then you should place a jumper on both the green and pink position.
|
|
| |
Beitragsbewertung:
|
Marcel-HV
Siedler
6 Beiträge
|
RE: Meister SAG7 Question..., 15 Feb. 2018 20:04
|
Working !!!
Thank you very much!
Don‘t want to push my luck, but do you happen to know how to change direction and which pins to use for the external buttons "halte afroep", "haltes doorbladeren" and to generate the door close "ping" as well, or is the only way to find out reverse engineer the original cable and the drawings?
(Normaly when the other cabin is switched on the same routes in the other direction are selectable and there‘s only one announcement unit in each train...)
|
|
| |
Beitragsbewertung:
|
Fien1989
Gelehrter
230 Beiträge
|
RE: Meister SAG7 Question..., 15 Feb. 2018 21:57
|
Why it say‘s "Central Station, change to Line E to The Hague"? :-o These subway cars were only used on Line E and never got to the Central Station :-o
I don‘t know, because I never saw this system in real 
According to the schematics I have here the EBIS2 has 5 switches conected to it‘s DB-37 connector, maybe one of these are the functions you want?:
- Tür (pin 14)
- Weg (pin 31)
- Gong (pin 16)
- Ansage (pin 35)
- Vor (pin 36)
They are all switched to pin 17.
There‘s also a pin 18 named "A-Kopf" which is not connected on the B-cabin, but is shorted to pin 17 on the A-cabin. Maybe this is used to change the direction of the stops?
The announcement-unit was installed in the B-cabin, so I think the default was the stops-order of the B-side?
This is part of the schematics for the A-cabin. On the B-cabin there‘s no short of 18 to 17.
And according to this schematic the T-Ein is at 33. We have now moved the jumper to let it start. But maybe it also start when 33 is connected to 24v+ without moving the jumper. But I never tested it, so if it‘s you only unit, don‘t risk damage it if it‘s already working with moved jumper ;-)
Edit: If you want to lower the sound volume, place a resistor of 680 Ohm (lowest volume, but still pretty loud if at home) between 10z and 14z on the back of the SAG7. Medium volume is around 2,7K Ohm.
Geändert von Fien1989 am 15.Feb.2018 22:22
|
|
| |
Beitragsbewertung:
|
puplictraffic
Senator
782 Beiträge
|
RE: Meister SAG7 Question..., 16 Feb. 2018 04:59
|
To set the Volume you can use the blue DIP-Switch on your back-PCB.
|
|
| |
Beitragsbewertung:
|
Marcel-HV
Siedler
6 Beiträge
|
RE: Meister SAG7 Question..., 16 Feb. 2018 05:09
|
A lot of info again, thanx!
Default order indeed is B-side. Pic was just to illustrate the destiny, the unit was probably from the 5234
|
|
| |
Beitragsbewertung:
|
Fien1989
Gelehrter
230 Beiträge
|
RE: Meister SAG7 Question..., 16 Feb. 2018 07:52
|
puplictraffic:
To set the Volume you can use the blue DIP-Switch on your back-PCB.
Normally yes, but if the rack is not used then it must be manually set with a resistor.
Marcel-HV:
A lot of info again, thanx!
Default order indeed is B-side. Pic was just to illustrate the destiny, the unit was probably from the 5234
Then I hope shorting the A-Kopf pin will let it change the order
|
|
| |
Beitragsbewertung:
|
Marcel-HV
Siedler
6 Beiträge
|
RE: Meister SAG7 Question..., 16 Feb. 2018 14:03
|
And again...Working! (Video )
FYI...The gong (17-16) only works when Tür (17-14) and Weg (17-31) are connected and the the EBIS2 automaticly goes to the next stop...
Direction is changed when A-kopf (17-18) is connected and the external controls Ansage (17-35) and Vor (17-36) work as well...
Again, thank you very much Fien1989 and publictraffic !!
|
|
| |
Beitragsbewertung:
|
Fien1989
Gelehrter
230 Beiträge
|
RE: Meister SAG7 Question..., 16 Feb. 2018 23:19
|
Nice to see it‘s working :-D This system is really funny <3
|
|
| |
Beitragsbewertung:
|
|
|
