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Fien1989
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230 Beiträge
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HPW FZG-IBIS with a ADtranz flip-dot sign, 09 Jun. 2016 03:26
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Today I‘ve got a Siemens/HPW FZG-IBIS control unit paired with a ADtranz/AEG flip-dot sign (10x25 + 16x85 dots side sign). The sign has firmware version 106.348.032 A.
First thing: is this control unit stiill usable to control signs? If yes, how can I connect this unit? And which protocol does it use?
The unit has 2 big connectors at the back and the whole unit sildes into a box which has the two connectors and a bunch of wires inside. But the wires which comes out are cut off :( Is there a pinout of the connectors to try repairing it?
Second thing: which protocol is used for the sign? Or better saying: which protocol does the sign use? I‘ve tried every protocol in IBIS Utility, but no one works. At Ds021 and FMA-S1 (telegrams starting with "aA") the sign gives a "a3" back, but nothing more.
The sign itself is working, it respond to test-telegrams like aT20 and aT21. But which type of telegram is used to make it show texts and a line-number?
The HPW FZG-IBIS control unit:
The controller board and firmware-version of the ADtranz sign:
< Dead image links >
Geändert von Fien1989 am 9.Oct.2016 19:05
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MagnusMagus
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673 Beiträge
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RE: HPW FZG-IBIS with a ADtranz flip-dot sign, 09 Jun. 2016 13:11
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So the HPW looks like a IBIS1 unit
Have a look here : Pinout
The sign has a FMA-S1 controller, my AEG looks exactly like that.
Geändert von MagnusMagus am 9.Jun.2016 13:16
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Fien1989
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230 Beiträge
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RE: HPW FZG-IBIS with a ADtranz flip-dot sign, 10 Jun. 2016 01:12
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The sign has a FMA-S1 controller board, but the firmware is not the same. It doesn‘t work with FMA-S1 in IBIS-Utility.
If I change the firmware for one from a AEG sign, then it works, so the sign is OK. But which protocol does the original firmware of this sign use?
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About the FZG-IBIS unit... sadly enough the unit will never work  There was a small dent on the top of the unit... I supposed it was just cosmetic, but it seems like someone (at the scrapyard?) has slam the unit in the past... inside the unit the CPU is broken in half, exectly underneath the dent
I‘ve connected the power and T-EIN to Common Eingabe. Then the unit powers up with a full black LCD.
Then I opened the unit and saw the broken CPU It was slammed so hard the downside of the PCB broke a corner of a (unused) connector from the lower PCB
So sadly enough this is a scrap unit...
Geändert von Fien1989 am 9.Oct.2016 19:03
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MagnusMagus
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673 Beiträge
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RE: HPW FZG-IBIS with a ADtranz flip-dot sign, 10 Jun. 2016 09:25
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The CPU looks like a 8048 with external memory.
If it really is, just replace it and the unit will work.
Also if it does have an internal memory, sometimes it can be recovered if the crystal is not broken.
Make a photo of the CPU type, maybe there is still hope for the unit.
Geändert von MagnusMagus am 10.Jun.2016 10:22
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Fien1989
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230 Beiträge
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RE: HPW FZG-IBIS with a ADtranz flip-dot sign, 10 Jun. 2016 17:40
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The CPU is a Intel C8751H-88.
Sadly enough I think it has internal memory because it has a glass window underneath the label. And this window is also broken...
< Dead image links >
Geändert von Fien1989 am 9.Oct.2016 19:04
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Beitragsbewertung:
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MagnusMagus
Senator
673 Beiträge
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RE: HPW FZG-IBIS with a ADtranz flip-dot sign, 10 Jun. 2016 21:23
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The component layout looks like a typical external EPROM configuration with RAM chip.
Could you make a photo of the two chips in the red Sockets?
Alternatively check if PIN31 is Connected to PIN40. IF it is, only external memory will be read if not..internal.
From the damage it looks like VPP is probably broken off, we don"t really care about PINS39-PIN29 for EPROM access, bur the chip may have the security bit set, then there is no way to read the EPROM :(
If you want I could try to download the EPROM with a programmer. You could also ask the IBIS1 users to dump the EPROM, i think the device looks similar enough that it may actually work.
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Fien1989
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230 Beiträge
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RE: HPW FZG-IBIS with a ADtranz flip-dot sign, 11 Jun. 2016 22:58
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Pin 31 & 40 on the CPU are not connected to each other.
These are the two chips in the red sockets nearby the CPU:
No EPROM
There‘s only a EPROM on one or the other PCB‘s in the unit.
Geändert von Fien1989 am 9.Oct.2016 19:03
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Fien1989
Gelehrter
230 Beiträge
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Beitragsbewertung:
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Fien1989
Gelehrter
230 Beiträge
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RE: HPW FZG-IBIS with a ADtranz flip-dot sign, 24 Jun. 2016 17:30
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I‘ve got a replacement CPU which has a minor version difference and have replaced the broken yellow part. Now the unit is back working 
It makes some funny tone at power on and then shows "Ausweis?". Whe pressing the "Ohne Ausweis" button the functions like Linie and Ziel are selectable
I still don‘t have connected it to any IBIS equipment, so still not know which functions this unit has. It doesn‘t show destination texts on the LCD.
Inside the unit I found a board with some round flat 3,6v lithium batteries soldered on it. Is this to hold the destinations? And how are these units loaded with data?
Geändert von Fien1989 am 9.Oct.2016 19:04
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Zugbusmodul
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103 Beiträge
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RE: HPW FZG-IBIS with a ADtranz flip-dot sign, 24 Jun. 2016 19:35
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One Battery is for time and the other is to hold the "IFIS-Daten". It‘s contains destination texts, routes and stations. Not all IBIS1 sends DS003a. Often uses only DS003. The data will be load with a download box "UDL" via RS232.
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Fien1989
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230 Beiträge
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RE: HPW FZG-IBIS with a ADtranz flip-dot sign, 24 Jun. 2016 19:45
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So when the battery runs out, the unit will be unusable if I can‘t load now data into it?
At the back of the backplane is a DB-9 connector. Maybe this is the connection for a download box.
This unit was connected to ADtranz/AEG flipdot signs without text-memory so I suppose this IBIS1-unit will send some Ds3a (or Ds21). The bus also had interior signs.
Geändert von Fien1989 am 24.Jun.2016 19:45
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Beitragsbewertung:
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Fien1989
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230 Beiträge
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RE: HPW FZG-IBIS with a ADtranz flip-dot sign, 26 Jun. 2016 02:01
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I‘ve connected the HPW IBIS1 to a PC with IBIS-Utility to see what it sends for sign controlling. It looks like it‘s Ds3a zA4 without any control characters.
It‘s strange than why the sign didn‘t work with the Ds3a zA4 from IBIS-Utility...
Also the IBIS1 sends anything displayed on it‘s LCD over the IBIS bus. No idea why.
And there are alot telegrams like mS2 and mS3 repeating constantly.
Here is a logfile with which telegrams the unit send:
in-> S2
in-> oAE
in-> mC2?10
in-> oAE
in-> mC2?00 - AUSWEIS ? -
in-> oAE
in-> mC2?10Z009
in-> oAE
in-> mS2
in-> mS2
in-> mS2
in-> mS2
in-> mS2
in-> mS2
in-> mS2
in-> mS2
in-> mS2
in-> mS2
in-> mS2
in-> mS2
in-> mS2
in-> mC7?00LINIE-KURS:
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mC7?00ROUTE :
in-> mC7?00ZAHLGRENZE :009
in-> mC3?10H009
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mC7?00ZIEL :
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mC3?10H001012
in-> mC7?00FAHRERNR. :
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mC6?00IRIS DEF.1:01
in-> mK22
in-> zA4 NORDBAD NORDBAD
in-> z012
in-> mC2?10H001012
in-> mS2
in-> e009001
in-> u0203
in-> mS2
in-> mV2
in-> oAV
in-> LF>d26066
in-> mS2
in-> w1
in-> mS2
in-> oAS
in-> mS2
in-> oAS
in-> n000
in-> oAS
in-> mS2
in-> oAS
in-> v
in-> mS2
in-> mS2
in-> mS2
in-> mS2
in-> mS2
in-> lE00
in-> mS2
in-> l000
in-> mS2
in-> mS2
in-> k00
in-> mS2
in-> z012
in-> mS2
in-> mS2
in-> e009001
in-> mS2
in-> u0203
in-> mS2
in-> d26066
in-> mS2
in-> mS2
in-> w1
in-> mS2
in-> n000
in-> mS2
in-> mS2
in-> mC2?00
in-> mC2?10H001012
in-> v
in-> mS2
in-> mS2
in-> oAS
in-> mS2
in-> oAS
in-> lE00
in-> oAS
in-> mS2
in-> oAS
in-> mS2
in-> l000
in-> mS2
in-> k00
in-> mS2
in-> mS2
in-> z012
in-> mS2
in-> e009001
in-> mS2
in-> mS2
in-> u0203
in-> mS2
in-> d26066
in-> mS2
in-> mS2
in-> w1
in-> mC3?00LINIE-KURS:
in-> mS3
in-> n000
in-> mS3
in-> v
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> lE00
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> l000
in-> mS3
in-> k00
in-> mS3
in-> mS3
in-> z012
in-> oAS
in-> mS3
in-> oAS
in-> mC2?00
in-> oAS
in-> l265
in-> oAS
in-> mC2?10H001012 26526
in-> k26
in-> mS2
in-> zA4 NORDBAD NORDBAD
in-> z012
in-> mS2
in-> mS2
in-> e009001
in-> mS2
in-> u0204
in-> mS2
in-> d26066
in-> mS2
in-> mS2
in-> w1
in-> mS2
in-> n000
in-> mS2
in-> mS2
in-> v
in-> mS2
in-> mS2
in-> mS2
in-> mS2
in-> lE00
in-> mS2
in-> l265
in-> mS2
in-> mS2
in-> k26
in-> mS2
in-> z012
in-> mS2
in-> mS2
in-> e009001
in-> mS2
in-> oAS
in-> u0204
in-> oAS
in-> mS2
in-> oAS
in-> mS2
in-> oAS
in-> d26066
in-> mS2
in-> w1
in-> mS2
in-> mS2
in-> n000
in-> mS2
in-> v
in-> mS2
in-> mS2
in-> mS2
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